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	<title>Comments on: On Plagiarism, Scholarship, and Community Knowledge</title>
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	<description>Thoughts on Emerging Media and Higher Education</description>
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		<title>By: bellavita</title>
		<link>http://academhack.outsidethetext.com/home/2009/on-plagiarism-scholarship-and-community-knowledge/comment-page-1/#comment-123571</link>
		<dc:creator>bellavita</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:18:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://academhack.outsidethetext.com/home/?p=357#comment-123571</guid>
		<description>An amazing and freeing quote. In my own writing I frequently struggle trying to remember whether an idea is something I came up with, something i heard or read, or something I assimilated some other way.  One consequence is I tend to over cite.  

Matthiessen reminds me that &quot;The true function of scholarship as a society is not to stake out claims on which others must not trespass, but to provide a community of knowledge in which others may share.”

I still need to cite.  I still have to talk about plagiarism with my students.  But I need also to remind them why we even bother inhabiting the community of knowledge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An amazing and freeing quote. In my own writing I frequently struggle trying to remember whether an idea is something I came up with, something i heard or read, or something I assimilated some other way.  One consequence is I tend to over cite.  </p>
<p>Matthiessen reminds me that &#8220;The true function of scholarship as a society is not to stake out claims on which others must not trespass, but to provide a community of knowledge in which others may share.”</p>
<p>I still need to cite.  I still have to talk about plagiarism with my students.  But I need also to remind them why we even bother inhabiting the community of knowledge.</p>
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		<title>By: nick</title>
		<link>http://academhack.outsidethetext.com/home/2009/on-plagiarism-scholarship-and-community-knowledge/comment-page-1/#comment-123518</link>
		<dc:creator>nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 01:30:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://academhack.outsidethetext.com/home/?p=357#comment-123518</guid>
		<description>I couldn&#039;t agree more with such a sentiment. Consider the physical human body. It functions in accordance with the laws of altruism. All cells work together in harmony, moving the vital resources of the body from organ to organ in order to produce life. More resources are placed into those weakest parts of the body that need more help. When a cell starts working for itself rather than the body, we call it cancer.

Consider this in terms of a &#039;body of knowledge&#039;. In order for us to create movement and evolution in this kind of body, the same principles must be applied. Of course, a small amount of resistance (consider for instance, a few years of exclusive intellectual property - patent, copyright) serves to make the organism stronger. But too much resistance, and the whole body separates, and therefore dies. Let&#039;s hope that we can bring society under the governance of these obvious, practical laws for the sake of our survival.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I couldn&#8217;t agree more with such a sentiment. Consider the physical human body. It functions in accordance with the laws of altruism. All cells work together in harmony, moving the vital resources of the body from organ to organ in order to produce life. More resources are placed into those weakest parts of the body that need more help. When a cell starts working for itself rather than the body, we call it cancer.</p>
<p>Consider this in terms of a &#8216;body of knowledge&#8217;. In order for us to create movement and evolution in this kind of body, the same principles must be applied. Of course, a small amount of resistance (consider for instance, a few years of exclusive intellectual property &#8211; patent, copyright) serves to make the organism stronger. But too much resistance, and the whole body separates, and therefore dies. Let&#8217;s hope that we can bring society under the governance of these obvious, practical laws for the sake of our survival.</p>
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		<title>By: dave</title>
		<link>http://academhack.outsidethetext.com/home/2009/on-plagiarism-scholarship-and-community-knowledge/comment-page-1/#comment-123170</link>
		<dc:creator>dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 12:26:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://academhack.outsidethetext.com/home/?p=357#comment-123170</guid>
		<description>@Tim. No I don&#039;t think you are missing the point. I was just being snarky in my previous reply, as when I read this quote (which appears in the end of Matthiessen&#039;s acknowledgements) it reflected a much different attitude towards scholarship, one which recognizes how he doesn&#039;t own his ideas, and that he consistently borrows/steals from others. Thus, I thought, given current discussions about these issues, this perspective, from one of the &quot;founders of American lit&quot; might be interesting. So, I posted it. I honestly was not in any way thinking about teaching . . . but it seem that some took it this way, which reflects what I think is an interesting moment in teaching: the hypersensitivity to plagiarism. Plagiarism from our students comes to serve as some great threat that we all must work to combat, a &quot;war on plagiarism&quot; that clouds are thinking, and doesn&#039;t really reflect what is going on. I would much prefer to discuss this quote on its own terms, that is not in relation to the classroom, which is how it is written.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Tim. No I don&#8217;t think you are missing the point. I was just being snarky in my previous reply, as when I read this quote (which appears in the end of Matthiessen&#8217;s acknowledgements) it reflected a much different attitude towards scholarship, one which recognizes how he doesn&#8217;t own his ideas, and that he consistently borrows/steals from others. Thus, I thought, given current discussions about these issues, this perspective, from one of the &#8220;founders of American lit&#8221; might be interesting. So, I posted it. I honestly was not in any way thinking about teaching . . . but it seem that some took it this way, which reflects what I think is an interesting moment in teaching: the hypersensitivity to plagiarism. Plagiarism from our students comes to serve as some great threat that we all must work to combat, a &#8220;war on plagiarism&#8221; that clouds are thinking, and doesn&#8217;t really reflect what is going on. I would much prefer to discuss this quote on its own terms, that is not in relation to the classroom, which is how it is written.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://academhack.outsidethetext.com/home/2009/on-plagiarism-scholarship-and-community-knowledge/comment-page-1/#comment-123124</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 00:30:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://academhack.outsidethetext.com/home/?p=357#comment-123124</guid>
		<description>@Dave: What a shame this descended to arguments about pedagogy so quickly. Maybe I misunderstand both your positions, but G. Cur Fielder&#039;s view doesn&#039;t seem to me to be exclusive of yours. I *want* my students to be so deeply engaged with their material that it is hard to distinguish which thoughts are &quot;theirs&quot;. I couldn&#039;t agree more with Matthiessen&#039;s comment, &quot;The true function of scholarship as a society is not to stake out claims on which others must not trespass, but to provide a community of knowledge in which others may share.” But this is not what I though Fielder was addressing in his comment.

It seems the issue is one of semantics, of the definition of terms. To me, plagiarism is not about using the ideas of others, we all do that (and if we don&#039;t then what are we doing in universities?). Plagiarism is about deception - deliberately and knowingly passing other&#039;s ideas as our own. That, to me, is *not* what Matthiessen was talking about. Deliberate plagiarism is not about sharing in the community of knowledge but about gaining advantage (such as a pass, or a Degree) by deception. This is not assimilating the thoughts of others in the exploration of knowledge, but using their words and ideas for personal gain. Whether undergraduate, post-graduate, artistic, literary, commercial or political (yes, we have had plagiarising politicians in Australia), deception does matter.

My thinking has been influenced by my own reading as well as by my relationships with my teachers, peers and students for decades. I hope that I will continue to adapt and change my thoughts in relationship with them. I trust also that I will acknowledge those influences where I am aware of them. While a good idea doesn&#039;t care who it belongs too, a good scholar does care about the development of those ideas. This is the scholarship part of &quot;Plagiarism, Scholarship, and Community Knowledge&quot;. 

Or am I missing the point entirely?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Dave: What a shame this descended to arguments about pedagogy so quickly. Maybe I misunderstand both your positions, but G. Cur Fielder&#8217;s view doesn&#8217;t seem to me to be exclusive of yours. I *want* my students to be so deeply engaged with their material that it is hard to distinguish which thoughts are &#8220;theirs&#8221;. I couldn&#8217;t agree more with Matthiessen&#8217;s comment, &#8220;The true function of scholarship as a society is not to stake out claims on which others must not trespass, but to provide a community of knowledge in which others may share.” But this is not what I though Fielder was addressing in his comment.</p>
<p>It seems the issue is one of semantics, of the definition of terms. To me, plagiarism is not about using the ideas of others, we all do that (and if we don&#8217;t then what are we doing in universities?). Plagiarism is about deception &#8211; deliberately and knowingly passing other&#8217;s ideas as our own. That, to me, is *not* what Matthiessen was talking about. Deliberate plagiarism is not about sharing in the community of knowledge but about gaining advantage (such as a pass, or a Degree) by deception. This is not assimilating the thoughts of others in the exploration of knowledge, but using their words and ideas for personal gain. Whether undergraduate, post-graduate, artistic, literary, commercial or political (yes, we have had plagiarising politicians in Australia), deception does matter.</p>
<p>My thinking has been influenced by my own reading as well as by my relationships with my teachers, peers and students for decades. I hope that I will continue to adapt and change my thoughts in relationship with them. I trust also that I will acknowledge those influences where I am aware of them. While a good idea doesn&#8217;t care who it belongs too, a good scholar does care about the development of those ideas. This is the scholarship part of &#8220;Plagiarism, Scholarship, and Community Knowledge&#8221;. </p>
<p>Or am I missing the point entirely?</p>
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		<title>By: Logan</title>
		<link>http://academhack.outsidethetext.com/home/2009/on-plagiarism-scholarship-and-community-knowledge/comment-page-1/#comment-123112</link>
		<dc:creator>Logan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Aug 2009 19:11:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://academhack.outsidethetext.com/home/?p=357#comment-123112</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not exactly sure where I stand in relation to this.  I agree that &quot;faculty cannot &#039;write their own scholarship,&#039; that the &#039;their own&#039; is always already implicated in a conversation a sort of plagiarism of others.&quot; I jive with the sentiment of the quotation, we stand on the shoulders of giants, etc. Though the rather pithy way the quotation reads is amusing and thought provoking, I believe too many people might not follow their thoughts once provoked and simply end at the conclusion, &quot;well fuck it then, I&#039;ll take whatever I want.&quot; Stressing the importance of community, dialogue, and conversation within each work is good and should be pointed out, however I think talking about such things in the context of a conversation about citation (simply making a nod to the source) is more fruitful than Matthiessen taken out of context.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not exactly sure where I stand in relation to this.  I agree that &#8220;faculty cannot &#8216;write their own scholarship,&#8217; that the &#8216;their own&#8217; is always already implicated in a conversation a sort of plagiarism of others.&#8221; I jive with the sentiment of the quotation, we stand on the shoulders of giants, etc. Though the rather pithy way the quotation reads is amusing and thought provoking, I believe too many people might not follow their thoughts once provoked and simply end at the conclusion, &#8220;well fuck it then, I&#8217;ll take whatever I want.&#8221; Stressing the importance of community, dialogue, and conversation within each work is good and should be pointed out, however I think talking about such things in the context of a conversation about citation (simply making a nod to the source) is more fruitful than Matthiessen taken out of context.</p>
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		<title>By: dave</title>
		<link>http://academhack.outsidethetext.com/home/2009/on-plagiarism-scholarship-and-community-knowledge/comment-page-1/#comment-123111</link>
		<dc:creator>dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Aug 2009 18:59:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://academhack.outsidethetext.com/home/?p=357#comment-123111</guid>
		<description>@G. Cur Fiedler. I think this is one of those cases where your response says more about you than about me. The quote in no way says anything about undergrads, nor did I place it within that frame. The quote is about the way we build academic knowledge, thru using the works of others. That indeed the very point of the quote is that  faculty cannot &quot;write their own scholarship,&quot; that the &quot;their own&quot; is always already implicated in a conversation a sort of plagiarism of others.  

Your suggestion that you could &quot;care less if a student is influenced by what he reads&quot; betrays your pedagogy, as that is almost all I care about, I want all of my students to be influenced by what they have read, otherwise why would I have them read.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@G. Cur Fiedler. I think this is one of those cases where your response says more about you than about me. The quote in no way says anything about undergrads, nor did I place it within that frame. The quote is about the way we build academic knowledge, thru using the works of others. That indeed the very point of the quote is that  faculty cannot &#8220;write their own scholarship,&#8221; that the &#8220;their own&#8221; is always already implicated in a conversation a sort of plagiarism of others.  </p>
<p>Your suggestion that you could &#8220;care less if a student is influenced by what he reads&#8221; betrays your pedagogy, as that is almost all I care about, I want all of my students to be influenced by what they have read, otherwise why would I have them read.</p>
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		<title>By: Candiluu</title>
		<link>http://academhack.outsidethetext.com/home/2009/on-plagiarism-scholarship-and-community-knowledge/comment-page-1/#comment-123110</link>
		<dc:creator>Candiluu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Aug 2009 18:57:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://academhack.outsidethetext.com/home/?p=357#comment-123110</guid>
		<description>@ G. Cur Fiedler
  
  I feel you are looking at the surface and limiting the quote&#039;s potential only to what the lowest common denominator of lazy students will do with it. 

  As a student I hope to live up to that quote by assimilating so much knowledge from my instructors, peers and strangers in line at the grocery store that I become able to instinctively take their views into my self, mold them, advance them, apply them to something I&#039;ve considered without prior progress, and return the new beast to the collective for the next mind to shape. If the conversation is so deeply embedded in my thoughts that I automatically pull from it, I&#039;ve held up my end of the learner/educator bargain. Only through participating in the discussion, and using it to progress as well as defeat itself and our own arguments, can we advance knowledge. (And I&#039;m sure I would never have felt that way had I not studied under some instructors who did.)

  It&#039;s a good kind of theft to which I hope to one day offer enough valuable information to fall victim.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ G. Cur Fiedler</p>
<p>  I feel you are looking at the surface and limiting the quote&#8217;s potential only to what the lowest common denominator of lazy students will do with it. </p>
<p>  As a student I hope to live up to that quote by assimilating so much knowledge from my instructors, peers and strangers in line at the grocery store that I become able to instinctively take their views into my self, mold them, advance them, apply them to something I&#8217;ve considered without prior progress, and return the new beast to the collective for the next mind to shape. If the conversation is so deeply embedded in my thoughts that I automatically pull from it, I&#8217;ve held up my end of the learner/educator bargain. Only through participating in the discussion, and using it to progress as well as defeat itself and our own arguments, can we advance knowledge. (And I&#8217;m sure I would never have felt that way had I not studied under some instructors who did.)</p>
<p>  It&#8217;s a good kind of theft to which I hope to one day offer enough valuable information to fall victim.</p>
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		<title>By: G. Cur Fiedler</title>
		<link>http://academhack.outsidethetext.com/home/2009/on-plagiarism-scholarship-and-community-knowledge/comment-page-1/#comment-123105</link>
		<dc:creator>G. Cur Fiedler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Aug 2009 17:16:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://academhack.outsidethetext.com/home/?p=357#comment-123105</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think you really get the problem of plagiarism or what it is for undergraduate students.

I could care less if a student is influenced by what he reads and uses that as inspiration to write an essay or paper. But blatant &#039;cut and paste&#039; or changing one word in a copied sentence without quotes is another matter, I hope you would agree.  

We want students to write their own papers, not use someone else&#039;s words. That&#039;s a big part of scholarship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think you really get the problem of plagiarism or what it is for undergraduate students.</p>
<p>I could care less if a student is influenced by what he reads and uses that as inspiration to write an essay or paper. But blatant &#8216;cut and paste&#8217; or changing one word in a copied sentence without quotes is another matter, I hope you would agree.  </p>
<p>We want students to write their own papers, not use someone else&#8217;s words. That&#8217;s a big part of scholarship.</p>
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