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	<title>Comments on: Getting the Right Writing Tool</title>
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	<description>Thoughts on Technology and Higher Education</description>
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		<title>By: richard m. ratzan</title>
		<link>http://academhack.outsidethetext.com/home/2007/getting-the-right-writing-tool/comment-page-1/#comment-10772</link>
		<dc:creator>richard m. ratzan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 18:09:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://academhack.outsidethetext.com/home/?p=149#comment-10772</guid>
		<description>May 9, 2007
Having written everything from a book (but not a thesis, admittedly) to poems to essays and every genre but screenwriting, and having used Scrivener and the other &quot;creative&quot; word processors, like Ulysses, Smultron, TextMate (in project mode), Jer&#039;s Novel Writer, Z-Writer, Avenir et al., and the very versatile hybrids like VoodooPad and NoteTaker, and the cumbersom project manager features of WORD and OpenOffice, I now prefer DEVONthink for any longer project (this is made to order for theses given it is a very flexible, scriptable database into which you can dump thousands of images, files, webpages, etexts, entire books in whatever language - am currently working on a project in Attic Greek). It has customizable (via preferences) window shapes and locations and very powerful concordance, classification, search, sorting and other features. I do like Tinderbox but am still on the steep (I can see the gentle sloping flat part of the curve in the distance) ascent of the learning curve.
RMR</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>May 9, 2007<br />
Having written everything from a book (but not a thesis, admittedly) to poems to essays and every genre but screenwriting, and having used Scrivener and the other &#8220;creative&#8221; word processors, like Ulysses, Smultron, TextMate (in project mode), Jer&#8217;s Novel Writer, Z-Writer, Avenir et al., and the very versatile hybrids like VoodooPad and NoteTaker, and the cumbersom project manager features of WORD and OpenOffice, I now prefer DEVONthink for any longer project (this is made to order for theses given it is a very flexible, scriptable database into which you can dump thousands of images, files, webpages, etexts, entire books in whatever language &#8211; am currently working on a project in Attic Greek). It has customizable (via preferences) window shapes and locations and very powerful concordance, classification, search, sorting and other features. I do like Tinderbox but am still on the steep (I can see the gentle sloping flat part of the curve in the distance) ascent of the learning curve.<br />
RMR</p>
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		<title>By: dave</title>
		<link>http://academhack.outsidethetext.com/home/2007/getting-the-right-writing-tool/comment-page-1/#comment-4000</link>
		<dc:creator>dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Mar 2007 16:23:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://academhack.outsidethetext.com/home/?p=149#comment-4000</guid>
		<description>JW:

Yes I agree this is a serious problem.  Mellel handles citations really well.  It works with both Sente and Bookends.    I have been using Scrivener just to get the text down and semi-organized.  Once I have the text I export as .rtf (Scrivener supports this easy) and open in Mellel.  At this point I work in Mellel to complete the draft, Scrivener acts more like a drafting place.  If you are going to do this you can actually write the citation in Scrivener and when it goes over to Mellel, Mellel will convert.  For example in Mellel whatever is between {} it turned into a citation, so, when I am working in Scrivener I use these as well, and when it goes over to Mellel, Mellel knows this is a citation.  But this is a bit labor intensive, only worth it for really long documents.  As a side note, I was told by the developer of Scrivener that he was planning on adding in Sente support.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JW:</p>
<p>Yes I agree this is a serious problem.  Mellel handles citations really well.  It works with both Sente and Bookends.    I have been using Scrivener just to get the text down and semi-organized.  Once I have the text I export as .rtf (Scrivener supports this easy) and open in Mellel.  At this point I work in Mellel to complete the draft, Scrivener acts more like a drafting place.  If you are going to do this you can actually write the citation in Scrivener and when it goes over to Mellel, Mellel will convert.  For example in Mellel whatever is between {} it turned into a citation, so, when I am working in Scrivener I use these as well, and when it goes over to Mellel, Mellel knows this is a citation.  But this is a bit labor intensive, only worth it for really long documents.  As a side note, I was told by the developer of Scrivener that he was planning on adding in Sente support.</p>
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		<title>By: JW</title>
		<link>http://academhack.outsidethetext.com/home/2007/getting-the-right-writing-tool/comment-page-1/#comment-3993</link>
		<dc:creator>JW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Mar 2007 15:22:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://academhack.outsidethetext.com/home/?p=149#comment-3993</guid>
		<description>What about citation handling? As an academic writer, it always frustrates me how the makers of word processing software either a) don&#039;t understand/realize the need for citations or b) realize the need, but spend no time implementing solutions because the market may be too small to justify the expense. MS Word 2007 actually implements citations in different formats, but still lacks 90% of the functionality found in a basic bibliography manager such as Endnote.

What would kill Scrivener for me is the lack of any citation support or the ability to directly integrate with a bibliography manger such as Bookends or Endnote.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about citation handling? As an academic writer, it always frustrates me how the makers of word processing software either a) don&#8217;t understand/realize the need for citations or b) realize the need, but spend no time implementing solutions because the market may be too small to justify the expense. MS Word 2007 actually implements citations in different formats, but still lacks 90% of the functionality found in a basic bibliography manager such as Endnote.</p>
<p>What would kill Scrivener for me is the lack of any citation support or the ability to directly integrate with a bibliography manger such as Bookends or Endnote.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim S</title>
		<link>http://academhack.outsidethetext.com/home/2007/getting-the-right-writing-tool/comment-page-1/#comment-3638</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 10:45:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://academhack.outsidethetext.com/home/?p=149#comment-3638</guid>
		<description>DEVONthink and DEVONagent for research, Scriviner for writing, Nisus Writer Express for formatting. I agree with the observations about Mellel: way too complicated.

 One to avoid: Papyrus Word. Good enough when installed, but expensive. Installing and updating are a nightmare, and they are tardy communicators. I finally tossed it out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DEVONthink and DEVONagent for research, Scriviner for writing, Nisus Writer Express for formatting. I agree with the observations about Mellel: way too complicated.</p>
<p> One to avoid: Papyrus Word. Good enough when installed, but expensive. Installing and updating are a nightmare, and they are tardy communicators. I finally tossed it out.</p>
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		<title>By: Wess Daniels</title>
		<link>http://academhack.outsidethetext.com/home/2007/getting-the-right-writing-tool/comment-page-1/#comment-3611</link>
		<dc:creator>Wess Daniels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 04:39:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://academhack.outsidethetext.com/home/?p=149#comment-3611</guid>
		<description>I love scrivner, I just used it to write my seminar paper - 45 pages long, with 15 different documents for notes, outlines, etc.  The dual pane writing mode sold me instantly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love scrivner, I just used it to write my seminar paper &#8211; 45 pages long, with 15 different documents for notes, outlines, etc.  The dual pane writing mode sold me instantly.</p>
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		<title>By: Gideon</title>
		<link>http://academhack.outsidethetext.com/home/2007/getting-the-right-writing-tool/comment-page-1/#comment-3536</link>
		<dc:creator>Gideon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Feb 2007 16:56:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://academhack.outsidethetext.com/home/?p=149#comment-3536</guid>
		<description>Recently I&#039;ve been playing with word processors, trying to find what works best on the Mac.

Whatever hegemony it may have, I&#039;m REALLY fond of Word 2007 (not so much earlier versions) and while I have it via Parallels I really don&#039;t like working outside the primary environment of my computer since I make such use of Devonthink and such.

Finding a good alternative has been tough.  OpenOffice is not really up for primetime in Mac yet.  Word 2004 bites.  But I did try Scrivner, Mellel and Nisus Writer Express.

I really liked the idea of Scrivner, but a lot of its features I was already doing in DevonThink or Yojimbo or Curio (for organizing a paper.)  Adding another that wasn&#039;t a primary editing tool didn&#039;t seem wise nor cost-efficient.

I played with Mellel - but it just didn&#039;t do a lot for me.  It used such a strange setup that I spent more time than I really like trying to figure out how to do something.  I probably, however, would have spent more time on it except that I then tried Nisus Writer Express - which I liked a lot.  The style controls are right there, which is something I use a lot, and the controls were very much what I&#039;m used to.  It also saves everything into an RTF, which is great for popping it into DT afterwards.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Recently I&#8217;ve been playing with word processors, trying to find what works best on the Mac.</p>
<p>Whatever hegemony it may have, I&#8217;m REALLY fond of Word 2007 (not so much earlier versions) and while I have it via Parallels I really don&#8217;t like working outside the primary environment of my computer since I make such use of Devonthink and such.</p>
<p>Finding a good alternative has been tough.  OpenOffice is not really up for primetime in Mac yet.  Word 2004 bites.  But I did try Scrivner, Mellel and Nisus Writer Express.</p>
<p>I really liked the idea of Scrivner, but a lot of its features I was already doing in DevonThink or Yojimbo or Curio (for organizing a paper.)  Adding another that wasn&#8217;t a primary editing tool didn&#8217;t seem wise nor cost-efficient.</p>
<p>I played with Mellel &#8211; but it just didn&#8217;t do a lot for me.  It used such a strange setup that I spent more time than I really like trying to figure out how to do something.  I probably, however, would have spent more time on it except that I then tried Nisus Writer Express &#8211; which I liked a lot.  The style controls are right there, which is something I use a lot, and the controls were very much what I&#8217;m used to.  It also saves everything into an RTF, which is great for popping it into DT afterwards.</p>
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		<title>By: Cody</title>
		<link>http://academhack.outsidethetext.com/home/2007/getting-the-right-writing-tool/comment-page-1/#comment-3531</link>
		<dc:creator>Cody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Feb 2007 15:25:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://academhack.outsidethetext.com/home/?p=149#comment-3531</guid>
		<description>I use Boswell. It is a very good program to store your text. You can export the text and use it in a word processor. Iâ€™ve used it for years, and the company has great tech support. Because Boswell is plain text, it takes up very little space. You can create notebooks for your projects, and then export those projects into a word processor, or text editor to finish your editing.  I also use Tinderbox and DEVONthink Pro.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I use Boswell. It is a very good program to store your text. You can export the text and use it in a word processor. Iâ€™ve used it for years, and the company has great tech support. Because Boswell is plain text, it takes up very little space. You can create notebooks for your projects, and then export those projects into a word processor, or text editor to finish your editing.  I also use Tinderbox and DEVONthink Pro.</p>
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		<title>By: dave</title>
		<link>http://academhack.outsidethetext.com/home/2007/getting-the-right-writing-tool/comment-page-1/#comment-3530</link>
		<dc:creator>dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Feb 2007 15:24:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://academhack.outsidethetext.com/home/?p=149#comment-3530</guid>
		<description>Nice idea Patrick.
My concern with Scrivener for students though would be the difficulty in &quot;putting it together.&quot;  I find that students have trouble with the global editing process, thinks like what to cut, what needs a better transition, etc.
Which is not to say that Scrivener wouldn&#039;t help with this, it actually could be better than traditional word processors, but I think that might call for a reworking of the writing process, some extra steps etc. that I would want to think about first.
I wouldn&#039;t want them to just use the research format to drop research in and summarize, which could be an issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice idea Patrick.<br />
My concern with Scrivener for students though would be the difficulty in &#8220;putting it together.&#8221;  I find that students have trouble with the global editing process, thinks like what to cut, what needs a better transition, etc.<br />
Which is not to say that Scrivener wouldn&#8217;t help with this, it actually could be better than traditional word processors, but I think that might call for a reworking of the writing process, some extra steps etc. that I would want to think about first.<br />
I wouldn&#8217;t want them to just use the research format to drop research in and summarize, which could be an issue.</p>
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		<title>By: The Portland Writer &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Odds and ends&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://academhack.outsidethetext.com/home/2007/getting-the-right-writing-tool/comment-page-1/#comment-3525</link>
		<dc:creator>The Portland Writer &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Odds and ends&#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Feb 2007 09:16:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://academhack.outsidethetext.com/home/?p=149#comment-3525</guid>
		<description>[...] Getting the right writing tool [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Getting the right writing tool [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dr Patrick Maher</title>
		<link>http://academhack.outsidethetext.com/home/2007/getting-the-right-writing-tool/comment-page-1/#comment-3520</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr Patrick Maher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Feb 2007 06:23:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://academhack.outsidethetext.com/home/?p=149#comment-3520</guid>
		<description>To see how your students might use Scrivener, try setting up a bit of research material - any old stuff will do. Put is in DRAFT folder in its own FILE. It could be a pdf, an rtf, or a quicktime movie. Now you have a file in the DRAFT folder.

Assume you are going to use that source material to inform your &#039;paper&#039;.

Now use ADD to start a new file in the same DRAFT folder. This will the &#039;PAPER I am writing&#039;.

Now get both of them up in a vertical split. 

Then fire up the INSPECTOR - you can choose notes in the inspector - very useful for research.

Then click the green button at the top of the visible panel (top left of screen). It should space the vertical panes properly - fiddle with the space dot to make adjustments.

Now you should have your research files in the &#039;BINDER&#039; panel on the left. Your source in the vertical panel next to the Binder, then the PAPER you are writing, then a notes panel. The notes panel is related to whatever file you click. It could be a &#039;source notes panel or a &#039;paper&#039; notes panel.

When you see this layout you will instantly grasp how it can be used by students  - or any academic - wanting to write a paper using a myriad of sources. 

Oh, of course, the files in the BINDER can be coloured for even more clarity when you group them. For example all blue files are text resources, all pink are media files, all green a paper related etc.

Dr. Patrick Maher</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To see how your students might use Scrivener, try setting up a bit of research material &#8211; any old stuff will do. Put is in DRAFT folder in its own FILE. It could be a pdf, an rtf, or a quicktime movie. Now you have a file in the DRAFT folder.</p>
<p>Assume you are going to use that source material to inform your &#8216;paper&#8217;.</p>
<p>Now use ADD to start a new file in the same DRAFT folder. This will the &#8216;PAPER I am writing&#8217;.</p>
<p>Now get both of them up in a vertical split. </p>
<p>Then fire up the INSPECTOR &#8211; you can choose notes in the inspector &#8211; very useful for research.</p>
<p>Then click the green button at the top of the visible panel (top left of screen). It should space the vertical panes properly &#8211; fiddle with the space dot to make adjustments.</p>
<p>Now you should have your research files in the &#8216;BINDER&#8217; panel on the left. Your source in the vertical panel next to the Binder, then the PAPER you are writing, then a notes panel. The notes panel is related to whatever file you click. It could be a &#8217;source notes panel or a &#8216;paper&#8217; notes panel.</p>
<p>When you see this layout you will instantly grasp how it can be used by students  &#8211; or any academic &#8211; wanting to write a paper using a myriad of sources. </p>
<p>Oh, of course, the files in the BINDER can be coloured for even more clarity when you group them. For example all blue files are text resources, all pink are media files, all green a paper related etc.</p>
<p>Dr. Patrick Maher</p>
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